On today's #MadGeniusLive, James Briscione joins us to talk cooking with wine, his book "The Flavor Matrix," tricky wine pairings, and our March wine issue.
[MUSIC] You are tuning into Mad Genius live, stick around cuz I've got James Gracey. I'm talking about his new book The Flavor Matrix, he's teaching me how to pair mustard greens with wine, and red wine with fish. [MUSIC] Good morning everybody, my name is Justin Chapple, I am Food and Wine's Culinary Director. And the resident mad genius, and your host every Thursday morning at 11 AM across the World Wide Web, if we're calling it that anymore. If you're following along, thank you, and we want you to join the conversation, we want your comments, we want your questions, because we are live. So use the hashtag madgeniuslive and hit us up. I have a special guest today. Another special guest today. Everyone I would like to introduce you to Jame Brisionne.>> What's up guys?>> James welcome>> Justin thank you.>> thank for cooking on the show. you had to walk up Exactly one flight of stairs? Two flights. Two flights of stairs. Okay. Two flights of stairs to get here. [LAUGH] And then coming right from the Institute of Culinary Education just right down stairs, right here in this building. And so what you do for the Institute of Culinary Education? So I'm the Director of Culinary Research. But I'm also a fulltime teacher, so I'm kind of in the kitchens at Every day with our students, but at the same time keeping my eye out on the world watching people like you. [LAUGH] Making sure we're keeping up, we're staying genius right along with you. But always looking at technology, modern cooking techniques, everything, making sure that whatever we're teaching at ICE is the same as what our students are gonna walk into when they go to a restaurant. Right. So ICE is one of the big culinary schools here in New York City, and it's really great, and it happens to be downstairs from the Food and Wine New York Test Kitchen. And we are talking about James' new book, The Flavor Matrix. We actually featured it in the April issue of Food and Wine, because it's an incredible book. It's really exciting, and Just touching on what you said about what you do for ice. You teach. This book is all about teaching. It's the art and science of pairing with ingredients, right? Of flavor. Kind of understanding flavor, how it's constructed. And how to use that information to be a better and more creative cook. I've worked in restaurants for over 12 years. and in my time at ICE we started this project with IBM working with Chef Watson. Kind of helping IBM develop this Chef Watson computer basically that could help chefs become more creative. Right.>> When we started that project I thought no way is a computer going to teach me anything about cooking. That I don't already know. I've been doing this for a lot longer. And what the hell does a computer know? [LAUGH] What the heck does a computer know? We got in and started working on this project and I was blown away by the way Watson was analyzing flavor. Thinking about combinations and coming up with pairings. And that information just blew my mind and But it's really, it's very complex, there's a lot of chemistry involved, it's, can be kind of hard to grab and there's really no resources for it anywhere. Mm-hm. So I got in to this, I wanna learn more about it, started looking, realized that information didn't exist so, hey I'm gonna go create it, and share it with everybody. [INAUDIBLE] And so one of the reasons we, obviously, we're a huge fan of the book because it teaches so many great things and at Food and Wine we're not, we don't just care aboout the food, we also care about the wine. And so we have this really great feature in the April issue of Food and Wine, and we obviously write about the book, we talked about how cool it is. And then we had James feature some of his favorite recipes from the book. One of which we're gonna start making now which is, you wanna tell us what we're making? We are doing pan roasted red snapper, going with an apple Strawberry, cherry tomato and basil salsa. Awesome, and if you check out the April issue of Food and Wine, and I know we just threw up the graphic, we could do it again if you want, but it basically shows how each of the components, how you break down a dish and how each component kinda plays with the wine. And that's how you end up. Pairing it, right? And it's really, yeah, it's exactly how we go about the pairings, and really it's how we kind of, I hope the flavor matrix will teach people to think about pairings, whether it be wine or just the ingredients, or you know, trying to spice up a piece of fish for a Wednesday night meal. [LAUGH] And that's really, you know, it's some complex concepts that are really sort of high minded, but the end result is like a more interesting dinner. On a Wednesday night, the recipe are in there. They're not complex, they're simply, they're approachable. And they're just kind of interesting and different. And that's what we're really getting after in the book. And that's we love the food man, we love to reinvent classic recipes. So let's get started. Yes. So you have your fish, so this is basically a two part dish, you have your fish and you have your salsa so. What should I do? I can help you out. Okay, you wanna do the apple? Here, you wanna do apples, strawberries? I'll do apple. We're gonna go into that bowl, so- I'm gonna grab the pairing knife here. Thank you, so- I heated your pan up for you too so that- Excellent. When you're ready to get the- We'll get that fish here. I forgot a compost bowl. In just a second. Let's use one of these. I love kinda finding these unexpected combinations- Mm-hm. And ingredients and that's really what we're doing in the Flavour Matrix is showing you kind of where flavour comes from and why certain flavours go well together. And this is something I learned when we were working on Chef Watson We had to approach everything we created with Chef Watson with a completely blank slate. You've been doing this for years, I've been doing this for years, we have that kind of mental Rolodex of hey, what ingredients go together, you say strawberries, and you're automatically gonna go to some of your favorite, probably sweet combinations with strawberries. We had to when we start this project, we had to just say, okay, where do strawberry flavor come from? And what makes a strawberry taste the way it does. Right. And let's look at that and not necessarily think about whatever. What do you think about, when you go strawberries what's the first thing you're reaching for? I mean the first thing I would reach for is the white probably because I don't know, I think of it as being fruity and kinda light and fresh and springy and summery all in one. So I mean, I would definitely go for that. But one of the reasons I wanted to have James demonstrate this recipe today was because it was so fun and surprising, the combination of this kinda fruit salsa with something fish. And right, so we're going fruit salsa and fish. And red wine [CROSSTALK] This kind of fruit salsa. Do you want me to finish the apple? Wait, I still have to cut these. [LAUGH] You're faster than me. The fruit combo with the fish isn't necessarily new, but what's really interesting is that James pairs it with a red wine, which is spectacular. Or dare I say mad genius. [LAUGH] I get it. I'm honorary mad genius for the day. I like that. I'll take it. You are. All right, so I'll get this snapper going here. Just a little bit of oil in the pan. Pan's nice and hot. Some good salt. Now, where do you stand? Do you score? Do you score or not score? I do not score. I don't score, either. Way to go. I like it. [LAUGH] What's the benefit of scoring, so people know at home. What he means by scoring is actually if you get a closeup of the fish here or the one that James is holding. A lot of people tend to take a small knife and they just score the skin. Right. And that basically means to cut through the skin but not cut through the flesh of the fish. And the idea, and the reason people do it, is that they think it's gonna keep the skin from curling up. Yeah. It's gonna curl less but it's not gonna keep it from curling completely. So it's a little bit of fake news there on the scoring. [LAUGH] But what will keep your fish from curling is what James is doing now. It's actually one of my favorite. This is now the third episode in a row that we've talked about, is this not? Can someone remind me? I think this is the third time in a row that we've talked about this fish spatula. So if you do not have fish spatula, you need to get one, and in fact- You're working for Big Fish Spatula, aren't you? [LAUGH] Apparently I need to get sponsored by a fish spatula company. But one of the first things James said when he got here was, do you have a fish spatula? And I was like, yeah, right there, obviously it's ready for you to go. So anyways, if you don't have a fish spatula, get it. They're thin. They're slotted. They're flexible. It's one of the most versatile tools, I think, in the kitchen. But anyways, to the point I was saying about not allowing your fish to curl So do you wanna explain what you're doing to the folks watching? Yeah, so really the only way it's not gonna curl is with a little bit of pressure. Some people will put a pan on top of the fish, I think that smashes the fish too much. When you have a nice kind of flexible spatula like this. Just some gentle pressure in the first five to ten seconds when the fish goes in the pan will help it to stay flat. And then it's gonna allow it to sear up really nicely. And then. And that's how you get the really crisp skin. That's how you get that really crispy skin. Yeah. Also, the other thing. People get very nervous, I feel like, often when they're cooking fish and they're worried that it is gonna stick and that things are happening. You know what? My fish right now, it is sticking. But That's okay. I'm not gonna mess with it. If you kinda go like this, and you go no it's stuck, and the you immediately wanna start digging in there, pry it up, that's when it's gonna go bad. Just wait, and it'll release on it's own once it comes to a really nice brown on the bottom. But that's true for a lot of protein. Everything, really. And also, I walk away from the stove all the time. I just leave something cooking. I'm not worried, I should be cutting tomatoes while I'm doing this. [LAUGH] I just walk away from the stove, I'm no worried about holding that pan or watching it, constantly moving it, trying to make, just leave it alone. Let it go cuz it all Kinda do it's own thing. Almost broke into some Frozen song there. [LAUGH] Are we alowed to sing the Frozen song on here? I don't know, that's probably Are there right's issues we need to worry about? I would assume so. It's unfortunately appropriate for our spring weather here in New York City. I'm gonna help you cut these. All right. I'm gonna need some for my recipe, too, because I'm gonna be doing. So this recipe, actually, if you're just tuning in, we have James Briscione, he's the director of culinary research at the Institute of Culinary Education. Nailed it. But more importantly, we are talking about his new book. Called Flavor Matrix, which is out now. If you're tuning into Facebook, we are dropping the link to buy this incredible book in the comments. We're also posting the recipe that James is cooking, which happens to be a pan roasted snapper with this delicious strawberry-apple. All set but what's really fun about it is in James book, the Flavor Matrix he kind of breaks fishes down, breaks cooking down into components and ingredients and teaches you how, looking at each component differently helps to pair it better with wine. Yeah, so that's, you know, actually what we did, I'll reach across you real quick, is we Really broke down the actual construction of flavor. We're looking at the magazine right now which I love to. That was so much fun to work with, bringing the wines in but with ingredients. We actually created this flavor wheels for each ingredient that has an individual measure of The flavor. Can you hold that up? I'm gonna hold that up so you guys can get a close up, okay? I wish that, we should have been smarter and kind of tried to get a graphic of this. Here, show this one. There you go. Yeah. [LAUGH] So we all know those kind of aroma wheels from doing wine tasting. Yeah. If we're doing coffee and beer, and they exist for all of that. But they didn't exist for food, which I don't understand, because all of those aromas that we talk about in beer and wine also exist in food, and they're really where the flavor of food comes from. But for some reason, we just always talk about is something salty or sour or sweet. Right. So that's always [UNKNOWN] just try to understand those flavors and where those flavors come from in food. And that's how we learn that these crazy ideas of putting these green apples and strawberries and tomatoes on top of fish. Cuz you see where those ingredients kind of match up. There is this little invisible connection between ingredients that sort of tell us hey this is actually a good idea, sounds weird. So we got, James has the snapper in the pan. We're making the salsa, we've got some, a Granny Smith apple. A green apple which is very sour, it's very tart. And then we have the really sweet strawberries. And then we have sweet cherry tomatoes. I'm gonna go grab a spoon, I'm gonna start mi this up for us. [INAUDIBLE] Fish doing well? Fish is coming, see look at that. Look at that. Beautiful release. My gosh can you guys see that, once it's ready it just kinda release right from the pan and look, you get that incredibly beautiful purply crust. So beautiful brown. Yeah. I want to get even a little more colour onto that guy, and lets see how this other one's doing The other one's not quite there yet. We might wanna crank the heat up just a little on this, It's also a little. To get the rest of the way. One of the things that I find really, I mean, this is something that we all notice. I'm a professional cook, you're a professional cook, in different capacities. But one of the things that's important is your Cooking on induction and cooking on gas or cooking on electric, it's all kind of different., And you just kinda got used to it. So obviously, we're cooking on this really awesome [UNKNOWN] poly science induction burner. And the way an induction burner works, it actually heats through the pan as opposed to heating wherever the flame- You didn't pull out the pan, right? So I guess what I'm saying is, does that matter with Cooking something like fish, or do you think that it's pretty much you're looking for the same outcome? I don't think it matters too much. I don't think it matters too much. I think, you know, heat is heat. As long as we're getting it hot, I think the beauty part of this is we can kind of watch it, and we actually know what the temperature is. So we can be realyl precise with it. To me the most important thing, the biggest thing about cooking, which we're always trying to teach our students at ICE, is how to control the heat. Right. Right. So having something like this where you actually know the exact temperature of the pan is really super helpful. Did you put vinegar in here? I have not added it yet. My god it already tastes so good [LAUGH]. Just from that apple Yeah, the apple is so good. Mm. And yes, it's fruit. But salt and pepper are so, so important. Yeah, they go a really long way with this. And one of the reasons I was so excited about this recipe because right now I'm really into fruit salads. I don't know if you've seen Allison Roman's book, it's called Dining In, but she has a whole section on fruit salads. Before I saw it in her book I was really excited, my God, I wanna do like a fruit salad story. And then I saw she had a whole section in her book about fruit salad. I was like shoot, she got to it first. But So this is me, I feel like I could, because of the pepper and the salt, I feel like could just eat this as like a salad. Yeah, and that's so you know, the other thing with all of these recipes that we put in the flavor matrix, this is just a beautiful straight up salad. Oil and vinegar dressing, you know, throw it in the cooler, bring it to the beach, bring it to the picnic. If you wanna just I say also with this Make some crostini with it, right? Yum. Spread some crostini with a little goat cheese or just put it on a soft bread with some pecorino on top, absolutely amazing. And actually, so the recipe for this, we're obviously posting the recipe for this. The recipe that we're posting and linking to incorporates the snapper. But I think in your book this recipe is actually a stand alone. Just [UNKNOWN]. Just, it's a stand alone on its own. So it goes really beautiful with fish. It could go on top of grilled chicken. But I do love it just sort of on its own as a salad, as a crestini. Again, you throw a little bit of cheese in there. Yeah. Especially a good salty cheese. You could do feta. You could do peccarino is my favorite cuz it's extra salty and a little funky. Yeah. Delicious. It's so good. And so also beautiful this fish now just incredibly Yum. Incredible brown skin. That perfect brown skin. That's where it pays. to be patient.>> Yeah.>> To wait and let that thing cook and where should I do this?>> You can pop it right in there yeah. And actually while you finish plating that I'm going to switch sides with you.>> Alright>> I'm going to start getting my dish ready over here. Because we got two dishes we're going. I just want to bring it over here and turn it on but then also I'm gonna bring out the wine. Yes. Because what's so interesting abou this dish is that James. And we talk about this in the April issue of Food and Wine. James breaks it down in the flavor matrix. We talk about how you take something that's so fresh, so light, so seasonal like this beautiful snapper dish. And you're pairing it with something so unusual. I mean, the wine itself is not unusual, but the pairing is unusual. Yeah. And why don't you just take us, tell us really quick why We're having red wine with this. Yeah so this is what we wanted to do in the April issue was go to some of our most common wines. The wines that everyone is going to go pick up at the store or they're likely already going to have on their shelf. This is an Oregon pinot noir. Let me turn this down. I've got sausage going over here. That's really great and I think you know that's just such a wonderful easy drinking wine, you get a lot of that big berry fruit upfront. You use a thing like raspberry blackberry with that. All right. [UNKNOWN] it's got good balance, it's got nice aciditing along with those kind of forward fruits. But then, as it lingers you're getting you a little bit [UNKNOWN] You're getting a little of that rose. Yeah. Right? And when we talk about those kind of secret connections between ingredients Apples and roses are very, very closely related. They belong to same underlying flavors. So when you get that kind of floral fruit the apple will be the first thing as you think about it. If not that then peach, alright? And then we're reinforcing the berry with the strawberry Mint is something that would fit in there really nicely, but we put a little savory twist on mint and go with basil instead. Right. Cuz, their underlying flavors are really similar. This is so smart to me. This recipe is definitely mad genius. If you're just tuning in, we're with James Briscione. We are talking about his new book, the flavor matrix, where it's the art and science of pairing. So he breaks down dishes into components, in a way that Allows you to better pair wine with your food and so we have this really surprising combination here. We've got a pan roasted red snapper with this tomato, strawberry and Green apple. Green apple salsa. I mean it's incredible. It's almost like as if you did a fish with kinda a mango salsa but you went with the strawberries and the thing, the apple, and. We're drinking red wine with it, which is so incredible, so thank you. We can keep eating that. I'm going to start to cook. You can get the recipe for the pan roasted snapper in the comments, or you can go to foodandwine.com or better yet, you want to grab that magazine really quick? The April issue of Food and Wine. You can get James' recipe in there but also you can get so many more recipes in his book The Flavor Matrix. So now we're gonna go with another recipe. This one happens to be my recipe that I developed for a wine pairing story, we actually did awhile ago. I'm gonna move this over here so I can keep eating it and I'm gonna ask for some help from you. You got it. So what do we need to do? If you wouldn't mind slicing those garlic. Close, there's six of them Garlic [INAUDIBLE] slice. I have some just sweet Italian sausage here that I browned up obviously before (chopping). Look at James really quick, stop what you're doing, look at James James watch him slice his garlic cloves. There you go. I asked James before we went live. I said, Can you slice really fast? And he was like yeah, did you watch chopped? So I said okay, then you're gonna slice the garlic and you're gonna slice the leeks. So- All right. I am making my, I can't remember what I call this dish, so let's just throw it up on the screen. Pasta- [LAUGH] Wait, pasta with mustard, I'm remembering for you. It's pasta with sausage and mustard greens. And oops, sausage down. So the reason I wanted to do this with James today was because I did this for a wine pairing story last year, actually. And it's actually kind of hard to pair wine with this dish. Not because of the sausage or the pasta, because those are obviously very easy to pair with wine. It's because I incorporate mustard greens into it, which we're gonna get to in a second. But so I browned some sausage up, put it here so you can look how beautiful it is. I'm gonna move Go over you so you can continue to drink your wine. I like that. And I'm gonna add, my gosh. Leeks, I'm on it. [LAUGH] Try to keep up, Justin. I told him I was gonna slice the leeks and he was gonna slice the garlic, but instead he can do all the work for me. All right, you wanna add that to my pan here? So we've got- But that smells so great already. Just All the little bit of oil and that fat from the sausage. You can really smell that fennel in there. Yeah. And that fennel note, so that was a challenge Justin threw at me. Is about, all right, Mr. science flavor guy, help me figure out a wine for this. And so we started kind of looking at all of the All the flavors that are going on in that dish. Yeah. And the bitter mustard greens are definitely kind of the challenge there. So I wanted to go with a lot of big acidity. Yeah. Look at you. I'm cutting up a lot of [UNKNOWN]. You know what? We cut your tomatoes the regular way. We're gonna cut mine Using my magic instead. Actually, for this recipe, I don't cut the tomatoes, but I just realized I don't wanna take forever because I want the tomatoes to break down a little bit, so I'm gonna cut them in a half. I almost- So, I'm just gonna do that. Said something about it. I love it, I love this trick. You need a little more liquid in there, I've got too much. Okay, so this is my magicness for slicing a whole bunch of tomatoes in half. Like I said, the recipe that we're linking to doesn't call [UNKNOWN]. I'm really only doing this for television because I want them to break down quicker. People, it's just a recipe. Would you relax? Yes! I love that you just said that, because. So I have a book coming out. I'm going to plug myself for a minute.>> [LAUGH] I have book coming out on May first and it's called Just Cook It and the whole idea behind it is food is just food. Like it's not don't over complicate it, don't over think it and just cook it. Which is you know that's why I gave it the title it has but.>> Yeah it's just food, be like alright And hey you don't like tomatoes? Guess what, you don't have to put tomatoes in it. Yeah. Exactly. Right? Use something else. You want some roasted red peppers? And that's really in Flavor Matrix we talk about in every chapter. We're going back to my book now. [LAUGH] We talk about it. That's okay. That's okay. We have it right here. Should we point to it? In every chapter we talk about the subsitutes for an ingredient. Yeah. So whether they're based on a texture subsitute or like a really smart flavor subsitute. Yeah. So You don't have that ingredient, how can you get a same flavor? How can you get something that can kind of stand in in the rest of this? Cuz guys, it is, it's just food, right? At the end of the day, it's supposed to taste good. It's supposed to make you happy, so- Yeah, go for it. I'm sure you get those questions all the time, you're like, I don't like this. What should I do? Can I still make this recipe? Like, yeah, absolutely, leave it out. This is a suggestion I read the recipe the way I like to eat it. Right. It doesn't mean its the only, you know the only way it can be done. People should have the confidence to play with the recipe a little bit and make it the way they like to. Yeah Just don't hit us up in the comments and be like I made your recipe and changed this, this and this and it was terrible. Yeah, no trolls. You're bad because. No, you changed everything. It's not my fault. But do hit us in the comments. So with questions using the #Madgeniuslife, so if you're watching, you have a question for James, if you have a question for me, hit us up, please. We want to know, we want to hear from you. If you bought James' book or cooked any of his recipes, let us know. Let us know what you did. So we have here, we're making my sausage and pasta and. Whatever. Mustard greens. Mustard greens, there you go. [LAUGH] So in the pan here I have six garlic cloves. I have a couple leeks, some cherry tomatoes I cut in half just to kinda help them break down a little quicker. I have salt and pepper. Where's the pepper at? Here we go. [BLANK_AUDIO] I think it's almost out. And now, I'm gonna add my pasta, which is right here. So will you actually grab a little bit of that pasta water? Yes. So oops! Jeez, I'm getting pasta everywhere. RIgatoni mountain. Now we're walking all over And James is a teacher. He's a culinary teacher so he's probably judging me and scoring me on how messy I am right now. Okay, so the reason I wanted to do this dish today was because mustard greens, because we have this thing called farm shelf, it's an hydroponic garden that we have here in the test kitchen. You saw it in the opener when we teased it. It's really cool because we could grow, pretty much anything that we want out of here. And one of the things that we decided to grow this time around was mustard grains. Because I happen to love mustard grains. And the team at farm shop were saying that they had really great mustard grains. So we went with it but now We have a ton of mustard greens. [UNKNOWN] Time to start using them up. I love mustard greens too. I grew up down south and these are a staple because they are everywhere and they are really cheap so you see them a lot and often cooked just like turnip greens or collard greens. Sausage or bacon or lots of onion. These are really great. They're really crisp right? They're realy crisp. The're super peppery. They're called mustard greens because they're in that mustard family that brasika family. They have really big spice. They are actually mustarding. That sting u get in your nose from really good dijon mustard, you get the exact same thing. Right. Out of this green. But the problem with that, and this is what I challenged James with, was that it actually makes it hard to pair wine with it because the tannins in wine tend to bring out the, really accentuate the bitterness in bitter greens. Yep. So we have two wines here. I'm gonna let you, where are they? They're right there. There we go. So we have two wines here. So our executive wine editor, Ray Aisle, gave me two wines out of our tasting room. One is California Zinfandel from Napa Valley and the reason why Ray wanted us to try it with this was because the Zinfandel, it's a really bold fruity red wine, but it's low in tannins. So you can get that like Ray actually one night when he was talking to me about it, this one here. Ray was actually talking to me about it and he was saying this is like actually the best wine for like basically pizza. Because and so because this pasta dish basically is like pizza, it has, it has the The carbs, it has the tomato, it has the sausage or whatever. He recommended that. But he said because the zinfandel has low tannins, then it would be great with the mustard greens. But then Ray also gave me a [UNKNOWN]. And he said, because he didn't taste this before he gave it to me. He said, okay, this is either going to be really, really good with this Or it's going to be really, really bad with this. [LAUGH] I'm challenging James to taste these both with me and then tell me. We're going to assume the red is delicious with this, but then we're going to talk about the white and just see if it kinda works with this. With the white kind of what we are going after there, and one of the things that we do in the flavor matrix you guys saw. We do those beautiful graphics that are kind of a visualization of flavor, looking at that aroma wheel of different ingredients. But if you wanna get super nerdy, make yourself a mad genius, you can go to the back. And we actually break down all the ingredients to the three most prominent compounds that create the flavor in each of those ingredients. So one of the things that we really wanted to kind of attack here was the spice. One of the spice that comes from the greens and the spice that comes from the fennel in the sausage, so anisole which is kind of this anise smelling compound Yeah that gives, that is part of the flavor compound in the greens also in the fennel seeds that are in the sausage We find that inside the au blanc, as well. Right. So we're kind of looking at a little bit of a match between all of those compounds that should be kind of a through thread that carries these all together. And I also like this because it's got some big acidity, it's really crisp. And it should help kind of flush out some of that bitterness from the greens. Right. As well, and it should be kind of bright and refreshing against. And plus we just, so yeah, that creme fraische there. Yes. [LAUGH] Which is beautiful, cuz it gives it a really wonderful richness, but keeps it light at the same time. Right, and that's kind of what So when I first had to prepare this recipe>>Do you nee sausage in that?>> Yes I do actually. [LAUGH] Alright thanks James, good thing you're here. Alright now look at me. This is a hot mess ladies and gentlemen. This is a hot mad genius mess. So and so there we go guys. This is just food right? This is just food. You vegitarians out there watching don't think u can't make this. Justin was just about to dish this out with no sausages. What was so funny is I was stirring it and I was like, I don't remember it being so full of past when I was creating this recipe. Okay. so this will be mine because it's a dirty plate. Alright I'm going to give you a better one. Okay so if you're just tuning in I've got my rigatoni here. It's got some beautiful sausage, it's got some cherry tomatoes. Of course the creamy I'm going to do this here.>> Yep. The creamy creme fresh which actually kind of is was my secret ingredient for making it pair with more wines because fat makes it pretty much, what does fat do for wine? What is, fat helps the wine really because it's gonna really make the pop every time I take a sip, right? Cuz you got that fat and you've got kind of that richness coating in your mouth. And then you take a sip of wine, you've got some big acidity. You've got tannins that are gonna kind of flush that out and revive your tongue when you take a A sip of that wine. I'm gonna put this here so that they can get a close up of it. [SOUND] My pan is really messy, do not judge me based on my pan. It was sliding all over the place. Get a close up of that. My delicious pasta dish. All right, so we're pairing it with this zinfindel. That one's in first, all right. It's delicious. It's actually really fruity and [BLANK_AUDIO] Like you said, really low tannin so it's just very smooth [BLANK_AUDIO]. Okay but now that- To me that like a perfect compliment for the pasta. Okay. Okay. I think what we might be going into here is kind of a [CROSSTALK] I'm going to show this. So this is a zinfen- I mean a, I'm sorry, a Sauvignon blanc from, I think New Zealand? South Africa. South Africa and our executive wine editor Ray recommended that we try it with this, it's going to be really good or really bad so lets try this. [BLANK_AUDIO] I like it a lot. I like it a lot. It's actually really good with that. It's got that big acidity but you've got all of those kind of green aromas in the wine. Yeah. That go with all of the greens, that really compliment. Yeah, and the- The moisture degree. And the acidity of the wine really kind of matches the acidity of the tomatoes and the creme fresh that is in the pasta. I think it's a win-win. So, we have three surprising pairings today. We have James' [INAUDIBLE] snapper with his green apple tomato strawberry salsa which you can get in his book, The Flavor Matrix, you can also get it in the comments, you can also get it. At foodandwine.com and the April issue of Food and Wine. We also made my pasta with sausage and mustard greens because mustard greens are really hard to pair win with. And we found two that work really well with the dish. Really good. And we have a [UNKNOWN], and we have South African [UNKNOWN]. So We hope, so follow along using the hashtag #MADGENIUSLIVE, please cook these recipes, please tag us on Instagram. Tag me on [UNKNOWN], tag at food wine, tag at The couple's kitchen Because On Instagram because my wife, the co author of the book who's also gonna be the wine director of our new restaurant. We do all of these things together. She is running crazy around the city right now getting ready for our move down to Pensacola, Florida. When we're getting ready to open our restaurant in a few months. So do all those things Justin said and come see us in Pensacola at Angelina's. We're gonna be cooking up. Really, actually, this pasta is something that could be on our menu. I like the southern twist on a classic Italian dish. I really love that. I might be stealing it. [LAUGH] So hit us up, Mad Genius Live, all across the internet, and you might be featured on next week's show. See you later everybody! See you guys! [MUSIC]